Thursday, October 16, 2008
Remember The Titans
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I think what I’m going to miss most is the elitism.
Though I’ve never worked in finance, for the past three years, I have been exploring the culture of young investment bankers on this website. Through a mix of fake articles and first and third person stories, I’ve attempted to bring light to topics ranging from the “glamorous,” nightlife and fashion, to the geeky, obsessive attention to detail and technical wizardry in Excel. The responses I’ve received and the comments left here have often offered even deeper insight into the psyche of the young banker / wannabe banker, and they’ve illustrated that one sentiment resonated more than any other: elitism.
What others don’t realize is that at the junior levels, everyone in banking makes relatively the same amount of money, and as such, bankers cling to an intricate hierarchy devised to rank institutions, groups within institutions, and individuals within those groups.
This site has seen comments (taken verbatim), like:
“Hey Wachovia bankers, what are you guys going to spend your $600 economic stimulus checks on?”
And polls:
Which would you rather be?
(A) An M&A MD at Jeffries
(B) A PWM VP at Bear
(C) A trade settlement analyst at Lehman
(D) A HR intern at GS
(E) A janitor at Citadel
For as long as I can remember, friends of mine used the names of boutique banks to refer to anything struggling or broken down—cars, clothes, electronics. I’ve seen a guy who himself worked at a boutique fail at picking up a girl and then bow his head in shame and say to himself: “Damn. That was so Piper Jaffray-ish of me.”
Then even lower down the totem pole came corporate lawyers, risk management, and the back office. But the ultimate insult—“retail banker”—was one that signified you had the horrific task of interacting with everyday, normal people. Absolutely disgusting.
I came to love this brand of humor. I relished the concept of people who found themselves to be elite being outdone by those who were widely recognized as being even more prestigious. And that’s what drove this website.
Throughout the credit crunch, elitism has been one of the last few fibers holding together the morale of the younger ranks of Wall Street. The fall of Bear Stearns could be attributed to their unrefined, “meathead” culture. Even if bonus outlooks were grim, you could look to your colleague and say “At least we don’t work in North Carolina,” and then make a Bank of America crack. Deal flow could literally be non-existent in private equity or your hedge fund could be down 20%, but hey—buy side, strong side. And as I’ve been trying to publicize my now more overtly ironic than intended book, Damn It Feels Good To Be A Banker, in the wake of this crisis, I, too, have been clutching dearly to elitism as a safe, time-tested comedic device.
For awhile, I’d known the situation was grim, but the sheer gravity of it all didn’t really hit until a recent dinner for a friend’s birthday at a midtown steakhouse. I had been following the news closely, but it was there, in the thick of it, that I realized just how messed up things had gotten.
It was a meal like any other, but when the check came to our table and we all pulled out our credit cards (to split, not roulette it, sadly), my friend Clay, a Lehman Brothers trader, was hesitant. For some reason, Clay insisted: “We should all just pay cash, guys.” Nervously, he added: “You know, it’ll just be easier and faster.”
My other friend at the table, Jeff, an ex-strategy consultant now working “in industry,” has always been the bottom rung of the totem pole, consistently berated for his impoverished, not hard-enough working ways. Jeff normally can’t even get a word in edgewise without his pathetic stories being trumped by the retelling of some grand act of financial deftness. But this week, he was confident. A smile of pure bliss crept across Jeff’s face as he motioned with his head towards Clay and whispered loudly: “looks like someone’s a little scared of leverage.”
Jeff’s insolence—a total disruption of the pecking order—was just one of a series of signs that the game had officially changed; the entire system had flipped. The Wall Street Journal reported that boutique banks, once laughed at for hiring only the most unqualified, were now well-positioned to succeed due to their lower capital requirements. Bank of America, the ungodly Middle America-serving beast in North Carolina, had established itself as a Wall Street powerhouse. And most devastating, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley could now take deposits as retail banks. When I heard the news that Sunday, something inside of me died.
Even on here, the non-finance people are perking up, posting cutting comments like:
“That’s great GS and MS will be adding some new ATMs around the world so I can withdraw my already fat Tech paycheck and not worry about the government.”
“Bottles & Models” says:
“Times are tough. I must drop the letter ‘S’ from appearing in my name until things rebound.”
Sure, I’ll join my friends in making a few, last-ditch efforts to revive that tingly feeling of superiority, swatting away the economic postulations of reporters, hipsters, and housewives deriding bankers as “clueless.” “It’s like celebrities talking about politics,” or “Blind people discussing art,” I’ll say, neglecting my own irony.
It’s half-hearted though, and ultimately, I’ve come to accept that the structure we’ve all loved for so long is now completely obsolete. I don’t exactly understand how certain institutions will change in the future, but I do know one thing—we must not let their great acts of the past be forgotten.
So as we move into this new era where everyone’s vying for a job at Raymond James and Goldman Sachs checks are bouncing at grocery stores in Idaho, I implore you to at least keep the memories of the good old days alive. In a couple years, when someone calls his brand new Ferrari “Piper Jaffray-ish,” or Charlotte, NC is the new epicenter of the financial world, I want you to recount the stories of our generation’s firms. Teach your children about the days when even uttering the name Morgan Stanley made college students faint. Read them the pre-2008 league tables, and make your sons and daughters memorize them alongside the ones for multiplication. Do whatever it takes to keep the legend of Wall Street as it was truly intended live on. When you think back on investment banking of the early 21st century, remember the heat—remember the passion. But mostly, remember the titans.
What's News?
↵ Ex-Investment Banker and pending Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel says America lacks “attention to detail.”
October 23rd, 2008 at 9:42 am
uhh posts like this are not helping! not even LSO is insulated from this mess? If I can’t count on this what can I count on?!
October 23rd, 2008 at 9:45 am
Oh silly author…dont you realize that elitism is in the eye of the beholder? For anyone who has never worked in finance 2 key points should be clarified- 1. People in finance can, should, do and always will look down on people in almost every other profession, and 2. The buyside will always be superior
October 23rd, 2008 at 9:51 am
Almost brought a tear to my eye…
October 23rd, 2008 at 9:57 am
this is like the day i found out santa isn’t real
October 23rd, 2008 at 9:57 am
Quality Post.
October 23rd, 2008 at 9:58 am
the halcyon days are over…
October 23rd, 2008 at 10:05 am
tear !(
October 23rd, 2008 at 10:25 am
Awesome, great write up. Thanks for the stories!
October 23rd, 2008 at 10:33 am
so is the website finished?
October 23rd, 2008 at 10:49 am
wow…this one touched me in all the right places…
October 23rd, 2008 at 11:11 am
So is this the end of the road my friend?
October 23rd, 2008 at 11:20 am
i was hoping that this would be your good-bye. alas, it is my fate to be disappointed.
tt123
October 23rd, 2008 at 11:57 am
I’m a former 2nd-year M&A Analyst at Lehman Bros. I attended an elite Ivy League school. Yet, upon Lehman’s collapse, I was forced to move back in with my parents in Upstate New York. I now recently just got a job as an ‘Opening Coordinator’ at a local Chuck-E-Cheese. It’s a completely new location for CEC that I’m helping to open. I’ve already helped host a few birthday parties. I figure, hey, at least I’m bringing some joy to the lives of little children. Yet I find that, unlike two years ago when I was picking up models at Tenjune, girls only laugh at me now in my Chuck-E-Cheese uniform. The ones I manage to actually pick up merely give me their phone numbers out of pity. One of the few minor joys remaining in my miserable life was this website. I still dreamed of someday returning to my career in finance. Knowing that someone like Logan/LSO was out there laughing at the crisis, calling it ‘Darwinism for Bankers’, helped me imagine that maybe the crisis wasn’t so bad. So finding out that Logan wasn’t real was truly, as someone rightly pointed out, like the day you found out that Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny weren’t real. All hope is lost. Nothing will ever be the same again.
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:03 pm
*tears up*
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:35 pm
It’s so strange to hear all this hoo-haa about Finance being the deal - in Europe finance is rather lookd down upon i.e. people who really do have money do not need to work in finance. Old Money is usually in charities, auction houses, education, arts… Kids with money don’t need to go slave away in banks because they don’t need to, and can do much more interesting things with their lives.
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:40 pm
As a 1st year analyst at an ibank, I hope you don’t start writing about the world of medical doctors or some other industry
October 23rd, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Really? You’re going to punk out now? What about all of the crazy shit ex-finance girls are doing with their free time, or the hysteria ripping through what’s left of banking groups and trading floors…
October 23rd, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Eleanor-
Americans define themselves by what they do and regardless of their parents income, see their own income as the preeminent measure of their worth. While I’d certainly take the european approach if my parents would allow it, I know plenty of kids with “generational wealth” who chose to work in finance. Call it the puritan work ethic, the meritocracy, whatever. Even the american aristocracy succumbs…
October 23rd, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Erroneous… Erroneous on all accounts
Finance is and always will be a source of envy for those inside & outside the limelight.
Sure the game changed but real players evolve
The E.F Huttons, Salomons and DLJs were caught with their pants down
Now it’s the Lehmans, Bears and Merrills
Smith Barney’s purchase of Salomon Brothers (once a powerhouse where the likes of John Merriwether worked) provides a nice comp for the BOA - Merrill fiasco.
America has a short memory and once we figure out a new way help average schlubs obtain a P.O.S corvette, we will be in their good graces again.
Find me a better occupation….
The steadiness of the legal & medical professions is a joke
All my life, I heard “stay in school”, “get your JD”, “become a doctor”… For what???
So I can get a job making 150k a year?
How am I suppose to drive Ferraris and Lamborghinis and take trips to Grand Caymen 10 times a year doing that???
And while your Big Law friends may have a smirk on their faces now, its only a matter of time until they are summarizing our credit agreements and fixing us drinks.
October 23rd, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Remember the time you spanked your admin for stapling a presentation in the wrong corner… Remember the time you made the janitor cry for vacuuming at 1:00am while you were finishing up a pitch… Remember the girls you never called or the ass you never got because you slept/ate/jerked off in your cube 24×7… You bet your pimpled, chubby ass you do.
But most of all my pathetic, unemployed peons: Remember that, even with the shitty markets and huge job cuts, management fees keep coming in the door. Remember what your working class mother always hoped you’d become. Remember that you never were and (especially now) never will be ready for the buyside.
Good luck with the grad school apps, you bunch of useless bitches.
October 23rd, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Self-awareness is the ultimate state of enlightenment. Too bad it took a financial armageddon to make it happen, not very impressive.
October 23rd, 2008 at 2:35 pm
@ Anon 1:12. OK, point taken, I know plenty of kids too who work in finance even though they could do something else. It is prestigious. But now - how prestigious is it really when half of the gits in IB are so damn dumb we can’t help but take the piss out of them? Maybe not so prestigious anymore, especially after this year’s deluge. Also, all this self-mythologising which LSO so brilliantly satirises… I am not against finance as such, and I find the banker-bashing completely simplistic and ignorant, but I just think defining oneself by one’s income is… well, maybe you’re right, certainly more wide-spread in America than in Europe.
@ The Loan Arranger. ‘Better occupation’? But hey, kids, are you serious? As much as I hear from my friends/dates/acquiantances - it’s miserable… I know not a single analyst, associate (or VP) who has ever admitted to enjoying their job: what I hear is dismal stuff, really gruesome stories from all over, you name it, GS, MS, Rothschild’s, Lazard, Credit Suisse… So I don’t know. You tell me. You enjoy your job?
October 23rd, 2008 at 3:14 pm
credit crunch? what credit crunch. im going to grate chee even more. in fact im gonna fly to switzerland and buy some moose chee.
October 23rd, 2008 at 3:23 pm
true ballers dont care about the integration of african americans onto our football team but rather learn to adapt to the situation and ball out even harder than before because there are always positives that come from negatives and if you play your cards right those positives could be huge.
Whos gonna be on the next bus, i know im gonna have shotgun but we are certainly gonna see the bus coming and it is probably going to look like a bus in downtown bangladesh where people are holding to the outside for dear life
October 23rd, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Banking aint dead
We just on hiatus…
Akin to “A Break In The Tracks”
We just transitioning…
Waiting to finance the next bubble
October 23rd, 2008 at 4:54 pm
quality. glad you got rid of the shit that was up last week. give you a pass as you were not thinking clearly with all the shit going on. i have less cash, but i am still pimpion da ho’s and being a true baller……
October 23rd, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Shitty, deal flow getting you down? Damn it feels good to be an accountant! I may not make as much in bull markets, but I still get paid when the shit hits the fan suckas! Enjoy the layoffs boys! I hear needle point can consume a lot of spare time…and to all the female bankers out there now’s a good time to consider maternity leave.
Best of luck to you all.
October 23rd, 2008 at 6:34 pm
I don’t know, ‘Benny’, sounds like the only cheese you’ll be grinding will be at Chuck-E-Cheese like the ‘Former Analyst’ turned ‘Opening Coordinator’ above.
I’m varsity, chump, you JV.
October 23rd, 2008 at 8:07 pm
The Kings are dead…Long live the Kings!
Now maybe we can get back to deals that make sense without massaging the thin-cap rules…
As a former analyst, all I want to say is…Buy side will always rule…Financial Sponsors groups will always get shafted…and your Director will always have no clue about the detail. High level baby! All the way!
October 23rd, 2008 at 9:10 pm
http://www.vimeo.com/1616061
whoops- wrong career choice, better luck next time around.
October 23rd, 2008 at 9:15 pm
What are your all’s thoughts on Institutional S&T
October 23rd, 2008 at 9:34 pm
What’s better than the buyside?
October 23rd, 2008 at 10:37 pm
The day a fucking consultant mouths off to me at the dinner table is the day I fucking kill a consultant at the dinner table.
October 24th, 2008 at 3:49 am
I mentioned this website to an M&A associate at a JPM recruitment drive last night. Earlier in the conversation I’d asked him a typical wannabe question ‘How do I stand out’ (translate: How do I be like you).
But, as these ‘conversations’ are conducted with 15 other starry eyed, sweaty palmed hopefulls, hanging on the words of a man in the industry and nodding vigorously at every sentence I’d failed to do just that, stand out.
However at the mention of LSO there was a glint of recognition and suddenly I was placed above my compeitiors who could only look on in longing and admiration whilst quaffing free wine and voraciously scoffing canapes. We had a conversation about banking culture (which was my way of covertly asking about bonus and salary predictions, I understand that doing this explicitly is a taboo at recruitment drives), about other banks (JPM employees ramming Citi) and about his future with the company (during which I made an inappropriate joke about bankers throwing themselves in front of trains… whoops). To keep a long story short I did some successful networking and it was thanks to your site.
I imagine the majority of readers had come to the conclusion that Logan was too charicature to be anything other than fictional. And that the stories of banking superstardom are a departure from reality. Bankers themselves have been quick to deny that they buy bottles, focusing instead on hard work and commitment. However the banks are still recruiting, and those they are recruiting from are graduates who have been fed on this stuff. Stories of bakning excess are our bread and butter. When I mentioned the LSO video with the banker pouring a red bull into a bottle of Grey Goose he gave a sort of comic snort. No one else around me picked up on it, but I knew that snort was one of recognition, acknowledging that no matter how bad times became that banker spirit remained strong.
I’ve been following site since I first came across it, and I know I’m not the only one. When I shook the JPM bankers hand with the firm assertive-without-trying-to-be-dominant I’ve been practising for the last five weeks I knew what was up. He was entrusting not just me but the post-credit crunch graduates as a whole with a dream. That dream is how banking should be, and once we’re in there it’s how banking will be again.
Ofcourse, if the chap I was speaking to at risk has anything to do with it I’m working for them and apparently have no choice about it. I don’t want to dwell on what that might imply about my character.
October 24th, 2008 at 5:16 am
accounting firms are going to take over
October 24th, 2008 at 6:14 am
the end of an era? or just a period of restructuring, im sure the bankers will come out with new ways of financing
October 24th, 2008 at 7:36 am
HEDGEmony,
Was that supposed to say HEDGEmoney? Dipshit.
Since you bitches won’t have any bonuses this year, I’m pretty sure I’m making more than anyone lower than a VP…if you still even have a job. If you broke ass bitches want to stay out of your parents’ basement, welcome to consulting.
October 24th, 2008 at 8:20 am
M&A is, and will always be, the Pride of Finance.
Companies will decide to merge, whether you like it or not; and whether financial markets are upside down or not. Lots of lawyers, consultants etc depend on that as well.
So you fellas can say whatever you like about the death of the IBD. Only time will tell.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:38 am
M&A is the pride of finance? Spoken like a true M&A douche bag!
$$$$ is what counts. S&T will always be king.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:46 am
I’m not going to lie, your posts are really sucking lately. I am going to quit reading this crap, it’s worse than when Evelyn is disrupting me, talking about godiva chocolates when all i want to do is listen to the new robert palmer tape. get some class, and some cash. get a pension for oliver peoples glasses and valentino couture suits. try spending thousands on a jean paul gaultier overnight bag. logan or lso, absolutely lame. for all of you want to be posters saying you working in ibanking, ive had enough of your lies. get a degree from harvard at 15 like me, get your mba from harvard at 17 like me. dont get caught up in that yale, closet homosexual coke shit.
October 24th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
hedgemony
n., pl. -nies.
The predominant influence, as of a state, region, or group, over another or others.
you are the dipshit
October 24th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
it sucks being unemployed…
October 24th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Wow Still Employed - did you go to a STATE SCHOOL or something??? Don’t know what hegemony means LMFAO.
Your pathetic command of the English vocabulary speaks volumes about your upbringing, education, future job prospects, and overall worth as a human being. I hope you enjoyed your time at Syracuse…
October 24th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Pierce & Pierce: you mean “penchant,” not “pension”
HEDGEmony/still employed?: The proper spelling is “hegemony.” There is no “d.” Still employed?’s definition is astute, though, and I appreciate his contribution otherwise.
hth.
October 24th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
No can do, got an 8:30 res at Dorsia
October 24th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Really? Really!?! Are consultants…even accountants, trying to brag to me on this website?
I can handle having a few acquaintances and threesomes with brilliant girls from Mckinsey who simply preferred a 60 hour work week (and are far hotter and less stressed than banker chicks), but some of the accountants on this page need to know just how impressed we are with your Bannana Republic cufflinks, pimpin’ apt on 81st and York and the 660 you got on the math section of the SAT - after paying The Princeton Review for a 10 week course to boost your raw score of 590.
At the MOST, you are allowed to go back to your sandboxes and smile SILENTLY that for one year, and one year only, your annual bonuses will in the same ballpark as ours.
As for the PARTNER at an account firm- you’re like an officer in the Coast Guard making fun of the Navy Seals.
October 24th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
…and PE, stop hating on the bankers. You were once there too…
October 24th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
feed me a stray cat
October 24th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
I dont know about you guys, but im fairing quite well… Just had another redbull, getting ready for a long friday night! Now quit your whining & bitching, you guys sound like a bunch of retail banking pansies!
October 24th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Bragging about accounting is just sad - why dont you brag about your Toyota or your whack girlfriend or getting a handjob? Because they suck, just like accounting. Your job is simply to add up how much money I make; yes, it’s so much I have to hire your dumb ass to do it, but hey you’re cheap and speak english.
Sure you still have a job, and one nobody else wants, but I made more money in the last year then you will the next five.
I’m heading south to Argentina to ride out the storm and spend some of the fortune I’ve amassed - bottles and models continues.
October 24th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
“Hmmm………………….” high school varsity maybe. yo hmm can you set me up a tee time for 11:15 and bring a couple friends and you may be able to get to carry my bag
October 24th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Still Employed- I’m happy to hear that you still have your BALLER consulting job. Nobody makes “real money” collecting salary working for someone else- especially consultants.
Comparing your salary to junior bankers in an economic downturn is like saying I could outrun an Olympic sprinter the day after they’ve been in a car crash; when they recover they’re going to kick your ass.
The skills you develop, contacts you make, and the work ethic you build in investment banking supersedes the chart making skills developed in consulting. With the exception of some ‘rockstars’ from Bain and McKinsey, its the ex-investment bankers that run the private equity / hedge fund worlds, and that lead transactions at the world’s largest organizations. Consulting is used to check a box for diligence or as an insurance policy for boards to justify risky decisions to shareholders. Don’t get me wrong- I’m sure its fun flying to random towns in Kansas to interview middle management about ‘the perceived efficiency of their data management systems’- its just nothing I would brag about. If you could “buy bottles with Starwood points” maybe I’d be impressed.
Two words for you bitch: “Carried Interest”
I’ll let you know if I need help formatting a pie chart.
October 24th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Sorry, guys, there are no Titans in this comment thread, nor were there any in the industry below the age of 30 for the last several years, except in their own fevered brains.
Reading this site, and your comments, is like watching a Pygmy smackdown over the relative size of their dicks. Sure, one of you has the biggest, but does 4″ really count?
Grow up.
October 24th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
ernst & young partner Said:
October 24th, 2008 at 5:16 am
“accounting firms are going to take over”
There are a lot of arguments on this site (e.g. bankers vs. consultants, bulge vs. boutique etc.), but I think we can all unite and come to the conclusion that this guy is a moron. Please refer to the job posting below:
Company: Ernst & Young
Position: Partner (M&A Group)
Education Requirements: College Degree (4 year preferred but Community College applicants will be considered)
Experience: 1-2 years of trying to get a real M&A job. Those that have made a pathetic and futile attempt to enter the buy-side will be considered.
Responsibilities:
-Assist in compiling bullsh*t industry reports no one outside the firm will read
-Perform “no value-added” secondary diligence on financial documents created by individuals far superior to yourself (e.g. bankers, lawyers, etc.)
-Perform various other tasks to annoy those more intelligent than you and slow down the deal process
P.S Enjoy your 5 years at E&Y so you can end up ripping through financial statements at a lower-middle market PE firm in Montana.
October 24th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
2 words for all IB’s/PE’s or whatever you dorks are - passive income. You guys are all so stupid working so hard to clear what, 400K/yr (if you’re lucky) and still the partner’s bitch, or an investor’s bitch even after you become partner - you’re still the bitch. Seriously “google” passive income, grow a pair of balls, take real risk (ie risk your own money - if you actually have any in the bank, doubt many of you do given your expenses) apply this knowledge and buy a piece of property bigger than 700 SF when you hit 35.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Hey Still Employed,
It actually is supposed to be HEDGEmony, dipshit.
If you had either the refinement, wit, or top notch education of a financier, you would realize that it is a play on where I work (a hedge fund) and hegemony, a word which means the dominance of one state or group over its allies or neighbors. Like how we continue to dominate low rent filth like you?
Speaking of low rent filth, I sure gave your B&T girlfriend a bonus the other night.
October 25th, 2008 at 3:12 am
Passive income….is that like network marketing?….amway?
bitch
October 25th, 2008 at 11:20 am
No, passive income is building a small or midsize business, hiring a few minions to do the “real” work after the thing si up and running, start clearing seven figures after 3-4 years of hard work and some luck, live below your means for about 5 years, sell the business and drive the proceeds into income producing assets. Seriously guys, Berkshire Hathaway was a T-Shirt shop in the 60’s - think about THAT. I’m trying to help you here.
October 25th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
In response to your epilogue:
Bankers make it happen, not banks. Goldman, Lehman, Merrill, Morgan Stanley are just names - brands, legal structures, paper companies. They aren’t ‘Titans’, they’re HoldCos for Titans - bankers. And bankers arent going anywhere.
As long as there are businesses in this world, there will always be people needed to buy, sell & fund them - and those people will always make piles of money doing it. Always. If you’re buying or selling a business or raising billions of dollars of capital, you’ll always pay the guy who can get you the best deal. You’ll always happily give a banker a few million when he can get you a higher multiple on the sale of your business, or save you tens of millions through cap structuring. It’s the ultimate commision business - a higher form of real estate brokering, car sales, art dealing, sports agency - and the smartest, most useful, most cunning bastards will always be there to take their slices.
Euligizing the end of an era and lamenting the loss of Bear and Lehman is embarassing. Bear wasn’t even a top-ten bank. When it died it was barely top 20 in M+A. Lehman was a new kid on the block. Ten years back, they were nowhere and that’s where they returned.
Merrill didn’t die, it got married. Maybe close, but importantly different. It’s an equity and M&A shop that linked up with a pretty decent balance sheet debt house + lev fin bank (based in NYC by the way, only its parent + retail bank are hq’d in Charlotte). BofA surely knows its i-bank branding sucks. I’d bet they keep the Merrill name for that side of the business - the ML oligarch has already taken over. And they’ll probably be #1 or #2 on the street - I really don’t care. Prestige is in the deals and the bonuses. The new world order top 5 is likely to be: GS, the NewCo Merrill, JP, MS, and Laz, in that order, and I guarantee nobody who’s been around the block in banking will be mindful of the brands and legacy prestige stigmas in the future anymore than they have in the past.
You can remember the ‘Titans’ as a couple dead B-squad banks and slightly revised legal structures. I’ll keep knowing them as colleagues. Don’t stop writing your blog, its classic. Or throw in the towel and go consult me up a pie chart or two, bitch. Up to you. But don’t say the ship’s going down when it’s just in irons, checking the compass.
Redpen
October 25th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
haha, still employed made a fool out of himself…anyone with half a brain could have identified the pun in ‘hedgemony’. i presume, ‘hedgemony’ has considered ‘hedgemoney’ as a play on words for both ends but he was afraid idiots like you wouldn’t catch onto that…
on another note, as a wall street denizen myself, i have been a bit irritated by the sheer arrogance of some folks and am somewhat glad to see some ‘refinement’ in the banking culture through weeding out the materialistic few…pay less attention to ‘things’ and focus more on ‘ideas’
October 25th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
awesome post there redpen
you have kept my faith in ibs
i will continue to word hard towards that goal
October 25th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
I am making enough money trading this year that I can retire and buy an island somewhere. Who is REALLY the baller here? Anyone who has slaved away as an investment banker missed the single easiest opportunity to amass wealth that anyone under the age of 50 has ever seen and may ever see again. I want to personally thank the clowns who kept the VIX at 20 for far to long and the a-holes who inflated stocks like RTP to absurd levels. While my buddies and I sometimes feel sorry that we are prospering at the expense of overpaid moron bankers (or even worse the simpletons throughout our great country who have never seen a trading floor) I won’t lose any sleep over it. The best part is that whether Wall St ever recovers or not, I will have made so much money this year that It really shouldn’t matter. I guess long short volatility fund managers will have the last laugh in the end. Thanks for the ride guys!
October 25th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
but honestly, is i-banking “dead?” i mean, like most of you are saying, we will need bankers to finance deals now and going forward! sure its slow now, but things will HAVE to pick up…. just wondering whether it makes sense to go to b-school now when everyone is being layed off and probably going there, or whether law school :-0 (i know….) should be my only saving grace at the moment… (i still have a job in banking)
October 25th, 2008 at 10:27 pm
amen brother. Amen
October 25th, 2008 at 10:27 pm
Lazard in the house, sons! Best place to work right now.
October 25th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
No, investment banking is not dead.
It’s on life support, still getting purged of the infection of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac, and starry eyed kids out of college who don’t even really like finance but think putting in their two years as an analyst will somehow benefit them.
October 26th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
lazard, nice. are you accepting resumes lol
October 26th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Even I would work for LAZ if it is the right group. Not a bad shop.
October 26th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
I have heard that Wachovia built a strong brand in the investment banking business and took lots of market share from the traditional I-Banks in recent years. A friend of mine says that Wells Fargo may keep WB’s entire I-Bank (since their sucks), so if that happens I would think that the new I-Bank would be at least top 3 given their strong balance sheet (WFC). Thoughts?? Would this be a good place to work??
October 26th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
GS guy you’re a fuckin pussy.
Boutiques are for women. If you need a large balance sheet to make up for your small penis, get out of the industry. The only thing I’m scared of during these times is not having enough time to fuck all the chicks that wanna smash
October 26th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Wow. Still Employed: your comment made me laugh out loud.
With regards to you, LSO: perhaps you should take this moment of profound sadness and reflection to pen a book of poetry. I’m hankering to read some poignant crisis haikus.
October 26th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
to unimpressed female:
How about you get back to the back office and wait on your knees for that BJ i promised id let you give me.
October 27th, 2008 at 5:46 am
…was this a eulogy or what? Come one, just because we’re de-leveraging does not mean we can’t do bottles! Live’n up, there’s better things to come, the era is past, but ‘THE’ era is coming!
October 27th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Redpen,
I’m not sure I agree with your statement:
“As long as there are businesses in this world, there will always be people needed to buy, sell & fund them - and those people will always make piles of money doing it.”
Yes, there will always be a need to buy/sell/fund companies. But why do you assume that people who provide these services will always make tons of money? I’m not talking short-term - IMHO this crisis is temporary. However, in the long run, there will be more and more experts in this area, methods of raising money will be well-documented and standardized. This will lead to narrowing to spreads and the profits of investment banks will be smaller.
October 27th, 2008 at 9:40 am
BofA’s IB, S&T, and research are all based in NYC.
October 27th, 2008 at 10:00 am
To Vol Trader:
Like many hedge funds that employ one or two strategies and don’t realize when the investing environment changes, you will lose a fortune when volatility declines. Just watch.
October 27th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Why were you hanging out with some douchebag consultant? Is this article made up?
October 27th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Its just a cleansing of the non-hitters soaked up in a Bull market, be gone with you
October 27th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
What the hell kind of a firm is RBC? What kind of M&A do you do? Big Jim’s snow plowing business buys out Bob’s garden supply to create less-cyclical business? I’ll give you a call when we need a 1% co-manager to fill the “retard” portion of our minority-owned business quota.
October 27th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
You are marginally better than RBC, since Kangaroo-farm M&A I suppose is better than general garden supply shop M&A.
October 27th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
To RBC/unimpressed female, you actually meant to say “less seasonal” rather than “less-cyclical”. Get back on your soon-to-be laid off ECM knees.
October 28th, 2008 at 10:25 am
I think you’re confusing the word elitist with snobbery, but that’s okay. The arugment still makes sense.
October 28th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Not fair - don’t stop posting. This is when we need you the most.
October 28th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Dear LSO,
I read your book and it was highly enjoyable. I find it funny that you write “eat shit everyone, us bankers rock and are better than you”…. and all of sudden the banker’s are now “eating shit”….
I guess it’s karma,… think about it
October 28th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Haha, hilarious end of the post.
But seriously, it’s about time for the charade of this entire financial system to finally end. Down with elitism and classism.
October 29th, 2008 at 7:45 am
Great article. True to the point.
October 29th, 2008 at 9:19 am
I work in finance “in industry”. Am I still employed? Yes. Do I have something to brag about? No. I know this because I spend 50% of my time meeting with our bankers. They come here, Gucci loafers, $100 bills stuff in their pockets. I pale in comarison to their bespoke suits. I make $60k a year total…2 years out of college. Bankers will always own me and take my money. Now, I must get back to saving up for that flat screen I want.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
I WISH I were a banker, even in this environment.
October 29th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
To Vol Trader, would be curious to talk shop if you’re interested anytime
October 29th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Wow.. that really was incredible.
This was your Opus
October 29th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Let the posts continue… what will I do with my downtime?!
October 30th, 2008 at 1:10 am
LSO, this sure as hell better not be the end. Best days are ahead.
October 30th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
I work in a Big 4 accounting firm doing due dilligence…do you think I’ll be able to land a gig as an IB associate at GS or MS these days (I have 3 years of experience and a CPA)? Or should I apply to HBS for my MBA?
October 30th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
What is ironic here is that the elitist Wall Street society was toppled by the poor (the Subprime borrowers/mortgages). Can we really trust the poor and the have nots? See what happens when you stuff the pockets of the lower tier society with home equity and easy financing. Elitism works….
October 30th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Former Solomon Brothers in the house…thanks for the good times. Still hitting 27th street like its summer 2006. Stay up and never forget your Excel 2004 shortcuts, we will be back on top sooner than you think. Everyone loves to hate the best, and that’s what we are…straight M&A all day homie!
October 30th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Options?, what the hell makes you think you can do IB if you’ve been doing due diligence but can’t even correctly spell “diligence”, you ass.
Maybe you could do IR at some ten dollar AUM hedge fund
Fucking loser
October 31st, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Options?,
You have no chance without a CFA. CPA/CFA has a fighting chance but it would be better if you came fresh out of MBA.
October 31st, 2008 at 2:19 pm
HEDGEmony,
Just because Mr. Patel used to smack you on the head with a wooden ruler so that you could learn how to spell “worthless” is no reason to make fun of one’s occasional spelling gaffes.
Sure, your superb spelling skills got you an adequate TOEFL score, allowing you to leave your stinkin’ mud hut in Calcutta and arrive in America to enrol in the Devry Community Business Diploma program. Way to go, douche.
I bet your attention to detail comes in very handy when calculating the rapidly-shrinking NAV of your bankrupt and defunct fund. Get back to the cage and start processing trade tickets, bitch.
November 1st, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Dear LSO,
Can you please write an article on how you perceive Big 4 Accounting firms (audit, tax, and advisory) specifics
Thanks
November 2nd, 2008 at 1:42 pm
State Street in the house, SON!
November 3rd, 2008 at 4:57 pm
What about becoming a doctor, engineer, lawyer, architect or dentist?
November 3rd, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Cute Cam’ron quote douchebag
November 4th, 2008 at 3:28 am
“What about becoming a doctor, engineer, lawyer, architect or dentist? ”
But none of those occupations start with B.
B is for baller and banker, great alliteration, and those two words are indefinitely interchangeable.
Baller…. Lawyer? No, just no.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:55 am
My bonus is bigger than yours and it will always be as long as you’re an accountant and I’m ruling the world bwuuuuhahahahaaaaa!!!
November 4th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Options?, you really are a lower breed (an accountant). Chances are, Hedgemony is probably white, but by delivering a worthless tirade about how he is indian is really somewhat demeaning to you since clearly some guy who can score adequately on his TOEFL is making more money than your ass. And don’t worry about getting into HBS b/c that won’t happen to you a) you will likely score lower on your GMAT than some guy from Calcutta b) you’re an accountant which means you either went to some shitty state school or couldn’t find a banking job out of NYU and c) you’re an idiot. Get back to counting inventory in Iowa.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
College Junior,
Don’t go work for Wells Fargo unless you have to. The idea that Wachovia was taking share away from traditional iBanks is a lie. What big M&A project or refinancing deal have you heard of coming out of Wachovia? Most people are ill conceived in the notion that wealth management = investment banking. Wealth managers = retards from 2nd rate business school. Anyone can tell you hwo to allocate a portfolio into stock, bonds and cash for retirement. If you want to be the real deal, go work for MS or GS, or even BAC (now that they are going to own Merrill), and go do either product or industry coverage in ibanking, though you may want to stay away from M&A. You can even go work in PE if it tickles your fancy, there are plenty of top tier ones, Lazard, Citadel, BSX, Cerberus, KKR, etc.
Btw, accounting is like consulting for retards. That is saying something since consultants themselves aren’t the brightest… All you do is pour over financial statements and don’t actually make any intelligent observations. I’m pretty sure I could train a monkey to do this. The E&Y job post is really funny, and it’s supposed to be a top tier, Big 4 accounting firm?
“Education Requirements: College Degree (4 year preferred but Community College applicants will be considered)”
Are you serious? Try going to a IB or S&T interview at a respectable top tier PE or IBank firm with a community college degree or even a four year degree from some shitty state school and I promise you will get laughed out of the interview room.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Wharton…please, coming out of wharton i would expect you to know the difference between HF, PE and Ibank. Lazard is an Ibank. KKR, Cerberus, and Blackstone (BX not BSX) are PE and Citadel is a HF. Get your shit straight. Are you sure you didn’t get your degree from the liberal arts side of Penn?
November 5th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
buyside dan -
depends on your definitions.
most would consider citadel a hf, but it does have a pe strategy.
lazard has lazard asset mgmt which is their $100b fund, with both hf and pe components.
blackstone has a multi-strat hedge fund that’s about 3 years old.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
To categorize all of the above as merely “PE” is just bad generalization. It’s no surprise most of these firms are diversified, even BX has an advisory arm. You can’t misrepresent a company just b/c it has an arm that employs a certain strategy. By that broad definition, Goldman, MS and almost every company on the Street would be a hf. At the end of the day, people will know lazard for banking, BX for pe, and Citadel as a hf.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
are you a fund accountant at state street?
November 5th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
BuySideDan and anon are both right. Sure Blackstone has hedge funds (multiple, not just a multi strat), but they’re known for PE. It’s like sure, they have beer at Scores, but they’re known for the tits
November 5th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
You guys clinging to notions of robust and attractive opportunities in HF, inv. banking and PE are just… sad. For years, there will be inescapable and mounting industry limitations, no matter what, with Obama & Co.’s new policies. Sure, you can still play ball in these areas. Doing so in this environment, however, is like somehow finding yourself in a hipster bar — even though you can bring home the three hottest girls there, you’re still capped at 6.5-7’s at best. Time to engineer new elitist fields.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
I was simply making gross generalizations to answer the kid’s question about his future job perspectives. I basically meant that he had options as to what he could do other than working for the “investment banking” arm of a large retail bank.
I admit the symbol for Blackstone was my mistake and I was not thinking when I typed it. However, you clearly knew I meant Blackstone with BSX and not Boston Scientific.
As for “coming out of Wharton”, I’m actually still in it. And no, I’m not a graduate of the college of arts and crafts, it’s Chem E & Finance.
November 6th, 2008 at 2:48 am
Nobody work there!!!
November 6th, 2008 at 11:48 am
You guys should fucking get off this site and tend to your bankrupt, broke and jobless lives, IB is toast for ever. Go get a job flipping burgers at Burger King!! Industry Rules
November 6th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
If you’re going to insult IB, at least use proper word usage, it’s “forever”.
Also, you sound really bitter. You probably got turned down by the investment banks. Industry is for chumps. Bankers may work long hours, but as a VP in banker, you can probably make 5x as much as a VP in industry.
November 6th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Hey ‘Industry Rules’: we can all acknowledge that your position marketing urinary test dipsticks at Henry Schein has a quiet dignity to it, but my bonus last year was still more than you’ll eke out in your entire 30-year career.
November 6th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
I am a joke!
November 6th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Brilliant… just effin brilliant
November 7th, 2008 at 3:17 am
Hey “Harbinger” of Financial crisis, hope you have not blown the fantastic bonus you earned last year, because I am quite sure you are now out of work and behind in servicing the mortgage on the Manhattan apartment that you can no longer afford. Well while you badmouth we hardworking, value-adding industry folks, you are soon agoing to find out that your years of concocting Voodoo Schemes on wall street has not prepared you for a real corporate job and I dont want you teaching my kid’s 9th grade algebra class because you might just taint the young minds with greed
November 7th, 2008 at 10:23 am
I can’t wait to take a bite out of Paulson’s ass when I see him in hell.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
I wanted to fill you guys in on what is going on on the academic side of things. I currently am a senior at the No. 2 undergraduate business school in the country. A couple years back, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley were bending over backwards to hand out jobs here. 100% of graudates received full-time offers. Now, the situation is much more grim. Anybody going to bulge brackets now either had the offer from a family connection or got it throught their summer internship. The top ranked students in the class (which includes myself) are moslty going to boutiques in New York or a submarket that revolves around industry (such as DC and Government and Defense). The exception is my buddy who is going to Houlihan.
November 7th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Sorry you couldn’t cut it. I’m heading to a BB in July; indeed, I got the chance because of a summer internship. And…?
November 7th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
So I was watching office space the other day. A great movie and very apt for the times, and it got me thinking. The author of this blog needs to write a movie script in the spirit of office space….slaying chicks, pounding cristal, and all that good stuff. I’d pay good money to watch that.
November 7th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Sorry to disappoint you, ‘Don’t give a hoot’, but I’m not out of work. This is a distressed securities hedge fund. You know, the kind that will have to provide liquidity to your company to pull it out of Ch. 11 oblivion. I might let you keep your job though when it comes time to restructure and reorganize the little “industrial” concern you work for. At least that way, I’ll still own you.
November 7th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Is this really the end?
November 8th, 2008 at 11:00 am
You should be embarrassed, greekbag. A kid graduating from Miami of Ohio is coming to GS as a full-time analyst this coming year. Without any connections either.
November 8th, 2008 at 11:02 am
You should be embarrassed, greekbag. A kid graduating out of Miami of Ohio is coming to GS as a full-time analyst. No connections either.
November 8th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Lol, this is what happens when you’re are a #2 business school (UVA’s McIntire?) trying to go to a #1 company.
Funny thing is that MS and GS are still recruiting here. Hell, Merill Lynch has been on campus and they aren’t even sure what’s going to happen to them after the BAC acquisition (their recruiters said that BAC hasn’t gotten around to discussing the aspects of their merged summer programs yet). The large banks such as UBS and JPM are all as desperate as ever to recruit iBanking and S&T interns. We still get recruiting from hedge funds and PE companies as well, and not too many seniors I’ve talked to (at least the ones at the top) are even considering to work for a boutique.
I mean sure the competition has gotten fiercer and we have business undergrads now seriously considering consulting and accounting (Gasp, I know), however when you’re in a class of 550 all competing with each other in addition to the 100 - 200 engineering students (it’s quite annoying that close to 50% of our engineering students sell out and go into financial services), some people are obviously going to get left out.
I’ve started the recruiting process early, had a chance to meet with the people from JPM, UBS and Merrill, and I’m not too worried. Sure it’s going to be more of a pain in my ass this year to find an internship, but as long as your not a fuck up in college and are intelligent with independent thought and good problem solving abilities, finding a job won’t be too difficult.
November 9th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Wharton please on Nov 4. You’re a fucking retard - the E&Y post is clearly a joke.
You also used the possessive “your” incorrectly in YOUR comment on Nov. 8th. Fuck up a pitch book with a mistake like that and see how long you keep your BB job.
And more generally, you mention that you’re in the process of applying for summer internships, yet you’re talking more shit than anyone on this message board. Get a job, close a deal, then talk shit if you still feel like it. Until then you’re still just a 20 year old bitch. So, keep your mouth shut until you have a more realistic idea of what it’s like out here.
November 9th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Wharton, Please: Not to defend greekbag (because he seems like a tool bag), but he is talking about full-time recruiting, not summer internship recruiting. There’s a huge difference. BB are still hiring interns because they’re cheap and necessary, but they are only hiring a small percentage of summer interns for full-time and not much else. So unless you did an internship at a BB, you’re basically screwed.
November 10th, 2008 at 12:11 am
I agree with them Wharton, Please
Try getting something done before you run your mouth, like putting in a 32 hour marathon in which you help your MD close a deal with a fund of fund when an idiot from risk didn’t do their job.
You think getting an internship is all that? Try getting hired now. Here’s a hint, you will be competing with people who have actually HELD the job you want to be considered for.
November 10th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
The highest levels of finance will never lose their prestige.
Many of those still glorifying banking remind me of former starting D1 quarterbacks who never got winning shots at the league — albeit with different wardrobes and better grammar. But NEVER QUIT.
In his time off from being one of three assistant supervisors at a Decatur Walmart, ‘DeAndre’ is still training in his self-constructed weight room in his second cousin’s basement .
DeAndre still boasts about his yet-to-be-confirmed ‘unda fo’-three’ 40 time and ultra-quick release, which he says he’ll display at his upcoming sixth-consecutive combine (assuming his usually-injured ankle ‘gonna be aight and ready tuh go dis year’).
Ultimately, DeAndre won’t play in the NFL. His ankle will mysteriously get tweaked during the first 40 time trial at the ‘09 combine; he’ll make Cincinnati’s practice squad in 2010 before getting cut (and laughed at) before the season’s start .
DeAndre and bankers come from totally different spheres of existence. ‘Logan,’ formerly with Morg. Stan., grew up in Highland Park and drank Yuenglings from one of his parents’ three lakehouses with friends on most weekends in highschool. He then excelled as an econ. major at U. Chicago before HBS. DeAndre was born in the slums of Detroit, fathered his first kid at 12 and still has three more payments on the 24-inch rims he bought for his 1981 Cadillac Deville in the 10th grade. He then had a semi-standout career as a Clemson quarterback, though plagued with off-the-field mishaps and minor injuries.
Both are now struggling. But neither have stopped pursuing their destinies.
November 11th, 2008 at 7:57 am
Meanwhile, our office managing partner addressed my class last week and asked us to please remember that many of our clients are bankers, many of them are currently pwned, and when in their presence we should try to empathize and downplay how well we’re doing.
I was going to add something like, “keep imploding and suing one another, faggots. My [some excess] isn’t going to pay for itself”…but then I figured the anecdote above really says it all.
You had a remarkable run.
November 11th, 2008 at 9:57 am
This website is doomed. Fucking retards.
November 11th, 2008 at 10:44 am
I’m pretty sure the guys who run this site post 90% of the comments here. Sad.
November 11th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Great posts everyone, glad to see the condescending behavior hasn’t subsided.
Cheers to dicks like us. We need to become very rich again so we continue to our destiny of becoming even bigger assholes.
November 11th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
For those looking for internships or full-time offers, boutiques are the way to go (obviously go after BB first, but you might have to look at other options just to get into investment banking).
November 11th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Guys, try not to be so fucking binary. When things go up, you’re reckoning (at least the market’s) is that it will always do so; when things turn sour, you assume that it will render the world you know in a ominous haze of shit.
Take this from a man.cons., (haha): As long as there is business (i.e. employed resources/assets that yield positive returns, without which we’d ALL be out-of-the-money) there will always be need for financing. An when shit needs financing, who’re you going to call? Ghostbusters? No. Bankers (of some kind)? Yes.
Relax. Be smart. Start making money again!
An keep this site up and running! Elitism must - and for certain will NEVER - die!
November 11th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Well, I’m glad a worked my ass off in school to get into this industry right before the fall…
Not worried though, the dust will settle and deals will still need to be done. And why are PE guys on here bashing everyone, try doing an LBO today in this fucking market, the business must be rolling in. Guys, and gals, this is not the way our world was meant to be run. Finance will always trump all other business aspects. So the accountants can laugh now as they total invoices and check trial balances, but we will rule again…
November 11th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
“Finance will always trump all other business aspects.”
Not true at all. Innovation and entrepreneurship will always trump finance over the long term. Finance is a service business. An important service business, don’t get me wrong, but still a service business. Other than the guys who rode the LBO bubble, pretty much the entire Forbes 400 are entrepreneurs or real estate guys, and most of the LBO and hedge fund guys will be off that list in 2009 due to declining net asset values. That being said, finance guys are very important to our economy and will still get very rich helping successful entrepreneurs get extremely rich.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Hell, we still rule…
November 11th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
PE guys are all former investment bankers. To get to the buyside, you have to spend time on the sellside.
One thing we can all agree on is IB/PE/HF beats accounting/consulting/law in all aspects, from comp to intelligence to prestige.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Nervous Grad, you’re a dwick!
November 11th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Other - while most PE guys are former bankers, consultancies like McK and Bain have collectively placed a ton into PE the past couple of years alone, at both the pre and post-MBA level. It’s quite common to find former consulting guys all over PE, with particular funds like Bain Capital, Charlesbridge and Berkshire Partners hiring almost exclusively out of consulting and top mega-funds hiring 2-3 per year.
Additionally, it’s not uncommon for a senior partner-level type to leave consulting and pasture as a rain-maker in PE.
November 11th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
My dream of being in finance and making money has become a dream deferred. And we all know what happens to a dream deferred. It can explode.
November 11th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
Pickens- Please start your own blog and write equally insightful posts on a regular basis.
November 12th, 2008 at 12:24 am
“More like big di*k up your asses”, to paraphrase LSO. I was just reading in the NY Times about all the thousands of BigLawyers that firms are beginning to lay off. Tisk, tisk. Not enough litigation and bankruptcy to hold you guys over, eh? Just proves how useless and worthless your already-miserable lives are w/out the ability to leech off the work of real men (i.e. financiers). Enjoy paying off those six-figure loans suing doctors from your new office in your parents’ basement.
November 12th, 2008 at 9:42 am
In an objective, ‘value-adding’ assessment, you service providers have always been right around the same level as tellers, in my opinion. Now that you’re working in the same quarters, I’m sure you’ll get along. I’ve heard most NY Chili’s have great Wednesday specials on burgers and margaritas. Maybe you guys can go out and enjoy them (splitting the bill, of course). I’ll be launching my next social software platform that helps inform and add to the wallets of the real capitalists, entrepreneurs.
Cheers! (And don’t forget, $1 margaritas Wed.)
November 12th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
“PE guys are all former investment bankers. To get to the buyside, you have to spend time on the sellside.
One thing we can all agree on is IB/PE/HF beats accounting/consulting/law in all aspects, from comp to intelligence to prestige.”
I don’t think that’s true, I just looked at the profiles at Bain capital, Blackstone, KKR, golden gate capital and Warburg Pincus. I saw more Mckinsey and Bain consultants than any other group.
- I work at Kleiner Perkins, also very few IBs here, more consultants. As an Ex-consultant I could be accused of bias but you can check out the profiles of the investing teams at these companies. I have nothing but respect for bankers, but some of you on this board are undeservingly arrogant.
November 13th, 2008 at 5:34 am
Bankers will always be one of the richest salaried group there ever will be. I don’t really know which industry a 30 year old can afford a fancy car, a wardrobe full of tailored suits and an apartment in Kensington without taking a loan.
Let’s face it though, we worked really hard to be the top of our undergrad class, made loads of applications to beat thousands of other grads for that dream job at a BB, then put in a 110+ of hours a week which makes our average salary/hour not that much higher than other professional jobs (at analyst level) and did that for straight seven years, through a recession (2001), at the prospect of an uncertain bonus? I think you can be arrogant and elitist.
But remember, if you were you’ll get scorned on the way down.
Sometimes the mystery is good. My friends come up to me with this great big smile on their face and treat me to a drink because they’ve made 20% bonus. I smile back and say ‘good on you’, enjoy the beer and pretend my bonus wasn’t 200%. Now that the goddamned cover is blown I actually have people telling me, ‘you can afford to lose your job’. People stop treating me like a peer. That sucks.
November 13th, 2008 at 9:58 am
This can’t be the end of the site, is it? Keep writing, for the children!
November 13th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Anonymous:
Commercial RE Brokerage is right up there too if you are good in a big market (Chicago, NY, ATL, Dallas). Fees aren’t as big but you get to keep more of them.
November 13th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfXEM9ZA8zE
This video helps explain everything…
November 13th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
In my younger and more vulnerable years my father gave me some advice that I’ve been turning over in my mind ever since.
“Whenever you feel like criticizing any one,” he told me, “just remember that all the people in this world haven’t had the advantages that you’ve had.”
F.Scott Fitzgerald through Nick Carroway
— This is the first paragraph of The Great Gatsby —
November 13th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
“Civilization’s going to pieces,” broke out Tom violently. “I’ve gotten to be a terrible pessimist about things. Have you read ‘The Rise of the Colored Empires’ by this man Goddard?”
November 13th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
“This idea is that we’re Nordics. I am, and you are, and you are, and—” After an infinitesimal hesitation he included Daisy with a slight nod, and she winked at me again. “—And we’ve produced all the things that go to make civilization—oh, science and art, and all that. Do you see?”
November 15th, 2008 at 2:49 am
So wait Wharton, you don’t even have an internship? You’re just some clumsy junior who couldn’t even alt-tab his way through an Excel spreadsheet. You probably still use the mouse.
Go ahead and make fun of my boutique. I’m still going to be drawing a competitive banking salary and bonus and won’t have to worry about getting fired in the near future because of downturns in the economy.
Also, YOUR poor grammar leads me to believe that my GPA is probably higher than any grade you have seen during YOUR time at Wharton. And if your deductive abilities can’t direct you to what that number actually is, then enjoy your job in “industry.”
November 15th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
So, this board is like group therapy for everyone who works in New York and has a tiny johnson? No wonder women will only sleep with you if you’re paying for it! hahahaha! You should really kill yourselves now.
November 15th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
nervous grad-you are a fucking moron! Get off this site you fucking tool. Oh yeah, you’re glad you worked your ass of in college, where will you find a job douchebag, Lehman, Citi, where you fucking retard? Go put a cock in your mouth.
November 16th, 2008 at 12:07 am
What are everyone’s current rankings of investment banks?
November 17th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Investment banking rankings are irrelevent now. No one cares how “prestigious” a firm is, people just want to have a job. They all pay the same anyways amongst the junior levels (still higher than 99% of other occupations); senior level bankers never gave a f*ck.
November 17th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
That’s the damn truth, ono. Well said.
November 17th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
the reason we are unemployed is that we would rather sit on a street corner trying to score smack while we suck some lawyer’s dick for coke money than become an accountant
i could wake up tomorrow and go work for KPMG, the only thing that stops me is the knowledge that I would hang myself in my pathetic little 57k per year cube
November 19th, 2008 at 2:31 am
How long does it take on average to make it to the ranks of MD or principal at an investment bank, PE firm or Hedge fund, IF u ever make it that far? GIve me a good answer
November 19th, 2008 at 9:12 am
dude, why you doin us like market liquidity and withdrawing from us when we need you most? seriously, don’t bitch out. keep the fiction going.
November 20th, 2008 at 10:33 am
Who was the fag bragging about biglaw? You guys are just a checkmark for due diligence. Just wait until they figure out how to outsource you to India, suckas
November 20th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Banking is awful, awful work. Most bankers I know despize everything but their short lifestyle outside of work. Most have a noticeable gait of defeatism when they walk and have lost what little personality they once had. Their eyes are sunken and their skin is pale. Trust me bros, I’ve been there too and it is abysmal.
To all prospective bankers - stay away from the light. Its a cesspool of self-pity and a crippling hierarchy of people above you who decide the course of your life (or around 2/3rds of it per week). As an analyst you are approximately 50,000 hours of desk work away from making any kind of important decision. If you have any type intutition of how the markets work, go into trading. Or if you are a kiss ass and you tried really hard to get a “B” in econometrics, sales. It has its downsides including alcoholism and some sleepless nights. But I’d rather lose six hours of sleep once a week than sleep six hours per week. If you are good you make substantially more money.
Trust me. At the end of the day in banking your only bastion of self worth is derived from your arrogance and your Hermes tie. Arrogance fades with a life spent 110 hours a week grafting onto others’ ingenuity. And the silk stains easily.
November 21st, 2008 at 3:31 am
Just read the book, have no criticism that would interest you, but would like to point out that MM IS NOT, in fact, the appropriate Roman numeral to represent one million. That would be an M with a line over it. MM is merely two thousand, a paltry and insignificant number which I am sure you do not wish to be associated with except in reference to cabfare and gratuities for strippers. Am I right?
November 21st, 2008 at 11:04 am
@ Dark Horse: I’m a BB IBD analyst and I derive a decent amount of self-worth from the fact that I’m one of the few survivors who can still thrive working a banker’s hours while dodging the massive layoffs. I actually like my job, and I will always look down on anyone who uses a mouse in Excel.
And I never get stains on my ties.
November 22nd, 2008 at 5:14 am
biglaw, accountants and consultants are just not my level. You can jup and down cheering subprime as much as you like but the truth is that you have no clue how to make $$$. And yes, Baller VP is not a victim of subprime. Baller VP gets a package from his previous employer with an offer from abother BB in the pocket. Still, as a sign of respect I shall celebrate with only one bottle/model combo.
November 22nd, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Wow, this site is awesome!
What’s really hilarious though are the comments! I don’t know if any of them are real, because I’m not sure that anyone can be that stupid and confused, but they still crack me up. Bottles, models, ballers.. hahahahaha! Great stuff!
November 24th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Redpen you are a stud. Your post motivated me to continue my search for a job on Wall Street. Thank you. I’ll see you at the top…
November 25th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
@Baller VP
A brief facts from a strategy consultant who is “not at [your] level”…
1. Your clients call me when they need someone to cut the B.S., determine the real strategic fit/value of an acquisition, and fix your crappy model
2. Your boss’s boss’s boss calls me when he needs someone to determine how to repair your firm, and just how many of *you* he needs to lay off, and now
3. Your girlfriend calls me when she wants a nice dinner and my junk
Have fun ballin’ on the sidelines, punk
November 25th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
yo LSO can you write a blog for med students? my classmates are so fucking uptight, it would be great if you blogged and destroyed everything they valued in the world
being brown im sure you have lots of friends in med school/residency…maybe you’re even joining us
November 26th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
@BallerVP,
A friendly reminder from a strategy consultant who is “just not at [your] level” that:
1. Your clients call me when they need someone to think strategically about an opportunity and to fix your crap models.
2. Your MD’s boss’s boss calls me when he needs input on how to run your business, or just how many of you he needs to RIF, and
3. Now your girlfriend calls me when she wants my junk (and dinner if I’m feeling hospitable).
You can give me a call if you want advice on a new career path. In the mean time, have fun ballin’ on the sidelines.
November 29th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
amazing post, ‘Teach your children about the days when even uttering the name Morgan Stanley made college students faint’
that did touch me……